The CEO of corporate credit card unicorn Ramp says the company’s counterintuitive secret to success is helping customers spend less

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Transcript:

Eric Glyman: We’re religious about it. We count the days. We’re 2,367 days old.

Alyson Shontell: You know exactly how many days old Ramp is?

Glyman: We do.

Shontell: Why?

Glyman: I think it creates this urgency. 

Diane Brady: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Leadership Next. The podcast about the people…

Kristin Stoller: …and trends…

Brady: …that are shaping the future of business. I’m Diane Brady.

Stoller: And I’m Kristin Stoller.

Brady: Earth observation technology is transforming industries by offering vital data that improves decision-making, reduces risks, and boosts efficiency. We are here with Jason Girzadas, the CEO of Deloitte US, sponsor of this podcast. Great to see you.

Jason Girzadas: Great to see you, Diane.

Brady: Earth observation—so what is it, and how can it help drive value for business?

Girzadas: Earth observation involves gathering information on natural and human-caused occurrences recorded by orbiting satellites. The quantity of satellites has dramatically increased, with more than half now privately owned, and this trend is ongoing.

Stoller: Jason, I’m curious—what are some promising trends? And why is right now a good time to be talking about Earth observation?

Girzadas: I think the realization, particularly amongst commercial enterprise, that this data is providing new insights, and it’s now at a cost effective point in its development for all sorts of organizations in different sectors.

Brady: I’m curious, are there a couple of examples of ways to use this data that you’d want to share?

Girzadas: I think some of the areas that are particularly exciting is in the agricultural space, when Earth observation data can be used to monitor the stress on crops and different weather cycles. I think, also, very complex supply chains that may have operations and hard to access, or more distant elements of supply chains, whether it’s in utilities or in oil and gas, that’s opening up a whole new frontier for cost effective, insightful data that can be used to innovate as well as to achieve cost leadership.

Brady: Fascinating stuff. Thanks, Jason.

Girzadas: Thank you.

Brady: Hi everybody. Welcome to Leadership Next. I’m Diane Brady…

Stoller: …and I’m Kristin Stoller. 

Brady: We are here with the woman we call boss. Alyson Shontell, Editor-in-Chief, Chief Content Officer, thank you for joining us.

Shontell: Thank you for having me. This is such an honor. I love what you all do. 

Stoller: Thank you, this is fun.

Brady: We're setting the stage for the discussion you had with Eric Glyman from Ramp at Brainstorm Tech. Could you share more about your insights into him as a leader?

Shontell: So Eric joined us at Deer Valley, our tech conference. We’ve been doing it for almost 25 years, and we like to have a mix of titans of industry and also disruptors of industry. And Eric is definitely the disruptor. He is one of the hottest startup founders on the market right now. They raised at a $16 billion valuation over the summer, and then six weeks later, that valuation jumped even higher to $22.5 billion. So, you know, it’s a hot AI market. They won’t say they’re a total AI company, and yet, they have AI in their bones. It’s integrated into all of the products. And basically, Ramp is a company that wants to remake how corporate expenses happen. And they’ve sort of flipped the model on its head. Where, formerly, a lot of credit card companies would say, like, hey, the more you spend, the more rewards you get. They sort of incentivize you to have bad financial behavior in some ways. And Ramp is like, well, that doesn’t totally make sense. What if we flipped it and we said, let’s help you spend less. In this environment where there’s so much caution about efficiencies and cost savings, that was really attractive. Especially during the pandemic, when Ramp really took off. So fun to have him on stage.

Stoller: Super unusual for a fintech company, too, to have that crazy of a valuation.

Brady: There goes year three-martini lunch, Kristin.

Stoller: I know, I know. And Ramp is going to be, or is, on the cover of the next issue? 

Shontell: Yes. At Coins2Day, one of our goals is to highlight the people in power, but also the people who we think are going to be in power, and the people that you should know who are rising stars. And so Eric falls into that camp. So he is our next cover star, I’m very excited to say.

Brady: I appreciated that he stayed at the event. I must admit, Kristin and I both rely heavily on these events for our livelihood. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the upcoming Coins2Day Global Forum, as that's precisely the kind of setting where these discussions take place. Ed Bastian, whom I know you've interviewed. Could you elaborate on the significance of in-person interaction at this moment?

Shontell: I believe the pandemic caused a significant deficit in this area. We continue to experience residual feelings of disconnectedness, which we observe repeatedly at our events and meetings. Individuals desire companionship and highly value and long for opportunities to learn from one another face-to-face. At Coins2Day, we've returned to the office full-time. We're committed to this approach, as we have been. However, the benefits of in-person interaction are undeniable. We're actively pursuing this. It's not comparable to Zoom. I can share smiles with you, appreciate both of you, and truly absorb your energy. Consequently, we've noticed that attendees at our conferences, including speakers, are seeking connections with customers as well.

Stoller: Yeah, and we’re excited to spend more time with you and Ed Bastian and Ray Dalio and a lot of other people, October 26th and 27th at the Coins2Day Global Forum in Riyadh. Looking forward to it. 

Shontell: It’s going to be amazing.

Brady: Anything else you want to tee up before we get into your interview with Ramp? What did you take away from it?

Shontell: A few things stood out to me about Eric. One is his understated drive. Leo Schwartz, who penned our cover story for Coins2Day, interviewed numerous individuals associated with Ramp, either as employees or rivals. When he inquired, what is this guy Eric really like? Their responses were generally hesitant, eventually settling on, nice. In another interview, someone asked him, You don’t seem like the right demeanor to be the founder of a $22.5 billion company. He appears composed and collected, yet he's highly focused on execution and progress. This dedication is so profound that they track the company's exact age in days. He stated the precise number on stage, around 2,367 days. He also mentioned they maintain a website for this daily count, accessible to all employees. 

Brady: Sounds obsessive compulsive, but hey.

Shontell: You know, I'd wager many startup founders possess that trait to some degree. It helps maintain focus. But he's thinking, this is the only 2,367th day we'll ever experience, so let's maximize it. Go team, let's do this. He and his co-founders aimed, from the company's inception, to establish a billion-dollar unicorn company quicker than any other in New York. They accomplished this in 18 months, and indeed, they achieved that goal. Consequently, they've been reaching successive impressive growth milestones, and it remains to be seen if they can sustain this momentum. It's not guaranteed they will, of course, but currently, the direction and buzz certainly appear to be present.

Brady: It’s exciting, the next generation of leaders. I love that.

Stoller: I’m excited to listen, let’s get into it. 

Shontell: Eric, thank you so much for being with us here today and at a big moment in time for Ramp. You are one of the hottest startups—you raised at a $16 billion valuation over the summer and then, like eight weeks later, raised at a $22.5 billion valuation. You just crossed $1 billion in annualized revenue, 45,000 customers. But first I want to just talk about that number. You look at $1 billion in revenue and then a $22.5 billion valuation. Is the math, mathing? Or are we in some valuation hype cycle? What is happening? How does that work?

Glyman: I believe Ramp is experiencing exceptionally rapid expansion. In the past year, our revenue has nearly doubled. For context, the most rapidly expanding public software firms anticipate and aim for growth rates of around 20% to 30% annually. Therefore, the pace of our growth, coupled with the company's size, is a key factor fueling investor enthusiasm. However, what's particularly noteworthy is that Ramp is actually accelerating its growth this year while simultaneously producing greater cash flow than the previous year. When you consider this alongside the immense market size—over $2 trillion is spent annually in the United States on corporate and small-business cards, which is just one of our target markets—and our current market share of approximately 1.5%, it's difficult not to be optimistic about future prospects.

Shontell: Hyperscale has been ingrained in you since the company's inception. You and your co-founder, Karim, set a goal to build a unicorn company, aiming for a $1 billion valuation in 18 months. This was unprecedented for Any New York company. What drove such an ambitious target? You achieved a billion-dollar valuation within 18 months. Furthermore, within two years, your revenue run rate reached $100 million.

Glyman: Precisely. Less than two years post-incorporation, Ramp achieved a valuation exceeding $1 billion, reaching $1.5 [billion]. Within two years of its inception, the company's revenue surpassed $100 million. And just a few years later, last month, we exceeded $1 billion in revenue. For us, I believe it's twofold. Firstly, you've touched upon the element of speed. We are fervent about it. We meticulously track our days; we are currently 2,367 days old.

Shontell: You know exactly how many days old Ramp is?

Glyman: We do.

Shontell: Why?

Glyman: It fosters a sense of urgency. I recall leaders such as Frank Slootman, author of Amp It Up, who discusses an organization's default condition. Without active leadership and a driving pace, operations tend to stagnate. The assumption is that deceleration occurs, and it's simple to state, you know what? Why not Monday instead of doing it on Friday? Our aim is to cultivate this urgency by saying, today is the only day 2,367 we’re going to have, we’re going to make it count. Furthermore, when daily contemplation involves What did we get done over the last 30 days? Over the last 60?, measurement becomes possible, enabling trade-offs and limitations. One can then assert, reflecting on recent months, these actions were truly significant and propelled us ahead; let's continue with them, especially regarding these other items, while I found them appealing, they didn't yield the same level of impact. I must decline these pursuits to accelerate our progress. This constitutes a significant element. Our primary objective is to assist clients in reducing their expenditures. We aspire to achieve the same for our own organization.

Shontell: That's a rather unique concept, and I'd like to discuss it further—the concept behind Ramp and how to explain it so everyone grasps it. It fundamentally alters the incentive model compared to how corporate credit cards have historically operated; typically, increased spending yields more points, encouraging further expenditure. Ramp, however, aims for users to spend less, which might initially appear counterintuitive for a business. Is this a sustainable business model?

Glyman: Indeed, some of the globe's most substantial corporations operate within this sector. You're looking at JPMorgan Chase, a company valued at over $800 billion, and American Express, worth $230 billion, demonstrating that success can be achieved by encouraging consumer spending. Having previously sold my company to Capital One, I gained insight into this industry's inner workings and what made it successful. However, I found it profoundly peculiar that, fundamentally, customers sought to diminish the banks' profitability by exploiting reward programs. Simultaneously, banks were motivated to undermine these very reward systems, initially promoting their value to consumers before subtly diminishing their worth. And we simply considered, this is a massive opportunity. What if our actual desires aligned with those of our customers, and what if our objective wasn't to provide them with the bare minimum, but rather to genuinely assist them in reducing their expenses? You can win by offering better value. Not focused on price—who's offering more value? I believe that was the other reason for targeting this sector. We felt, though we weren't sure if we'd be the ones, that ultimately this was the direction the industry ought to go. Businesses aim to improve their customers' situations, and clients actively select the companies that foster their development. I believe that's been the primary reason for Ramp's swift expansion.

Shontell: You weren't the initial startup in this market. A competitor, Brex, which remains active and holds a significantly lower valuation than yours, was present. Brex could be considered the first mover, and at the time of your launch, it had already achieved unicorn status. Considering this, how have you managed to progress, even with a major competitor in the field potentially drawing away venture capital, and have you frankly outperformed them in every aspect?

Glyman: In our initial stages, we frequently faced accusations of being a late entrant. Our perspective was always that we were the 150th to enter this space. Considering the major corporations in this nation, many were established 175 years ago, with founders who, quite literally, sported top hats. Consequently, our arrival didn't concern us greatly...

Shontell: You need a top hat.

Glyman: …we’ll work on it, we’ll talk with the styling team. However, when we entered this sector, it didn't concern us to join it somewhat later. We believed this was a substantial sector that didn't align with its ultimate consumers. And perhaps when your founders wore top hats, the significance of time isn't something you'd ponder daily. You've existed for your entire life, and you'll likely continue to do so, so why the rush? We examined some impressive businesses in the Valley. The Metas, the Ubers, that move fast, that create technology quickly. And it was so at odds with the financial institutions where, if you were transported back in time and had to use the bank accounts or the credit cards of 50 years ago, you’d probably be fine, but if you had to use the phones from 50 years ago, you and I couldn’t do our jobs. And it just drove home that there was very little product innovation. And so one of the things we set out to do in starting Ramp was, we have got to be first aligned with our customer. Helping them reduce expenses and improve their business's success was the foremost objective. And then number two, we would try to build this valley-type like company that is iterating very quickly, that is measuring in days, that is shipping products every single day. We’ve shipped more products this year than there are business days, more features and announcements. And the goal when you do that, is the experience of how much time the product saved just expands and compounds faster. We're working to catch up. Our aim is to achieve in a few years what the financial services industry should have accomplished over the past five decades, thereby enhancing our customers' businesses because it's important. 

Shontell: You didn’t start out as an AI company, but would you say you’re an AI company now? How are you using it to make Ramp more efficient and your customers more efficient? Is it actually working in a measurable way?

Glyman: For sure. So first, when you think about our customer base, we support over 45,000 companies of all shapes and sizes, from family farms to the Coins2Day 500. But for the majority, especially the small- and mid-sized businesses, they don’t have a single engineer at the company, let alone an engineer working to make their finance department modern, adopt AI, all of that. At Ramp, more than half of our payroll is dedicated to R&D, encompassing engineering, data science, and design, all with the goal of incorporating cutting-edge technology. This way, even if you're a small business, you're gaining advantages from the advancements occurring in these research facilities. Customers will notice this when they tap their card at a store, as Ramp will then send them a text message. We automatically link your receipt photo to the correct transactions. The accounting category is automatically completed. Today, most people are used to expenses being the worst hour of their month. Very painful, takes a lot of work. On Ramp, you snap a photo and you’re done. The whole process of submitting expenses is completed in about 10 seconds. For most of our customers, they’re not necessarily thinking, I’m buying an AI expense report. It’s just an easier way to do business. And it turns out that AI is the method by which every single step in the process is being accelerated. Yes, it does.

Shontell: Yes, it does. Are companies experiencing advantages from the AI efficiencies you offer? Numerous studies exist, including one in particular, which discuss the widespread failure of corporate AI pilot programs. It's often reported that individuals are unable to boost revenue or achieve monetary efficiencies through AI. Therefore, I'm interested to know if Ramp has seen increased revenue due to AI, and if you can demonstrate that you're enhancing companies' revenue through AI.

Glyman: I'm so glad you brought that up. A distinctive aspect of our sector, which I believe we pioneered and remain the sole industry to accomplish, is quantifying the financial and temporal benefits we've delivered to our clientele. From our beginning, we've enabled our clients to save $10 billion compared to what they'd have spent, and automated 27.5 million hours of tasks. On average, our company can help businesses lower their annual expenditures by more than 5%. Compare that to a rewards program. There’s not enough interchange to fund more than the order of two-ish percent of a rebate. We are saving customers dramatically more than what’s possible. When examining the company's history, particularly from When Ramp was first covered upon its 2020 launch, our initial projection was that we could assist the typical business in reducing its expenditures by 2%. That's significantly more than 5% today, largely due to AI beginning to handle the cost of bookkeeping and accounting. To transfer funds for better returns. It can not only offer suggestions but also actively participate and execute tasks within the workflow. And so I think there are a lot of companies out there selling AI services but aren’t measuring the results, a lot of companies selling you rewards that aren’t thinking about the impact on the bottom line. Ramp, from the jump, has been focused on: what is the ROI, what is the impact that we’re driving, religious on measuring and reporting that out. And I think that’s part of why our net promoter score is in the sixties. It's akin to a Apple, and I believe many businesses currently facing difficulties with the AI they've marketed, which customers aren't entirely satisfied with, experiencing buyer's remorse, failed to begin with that fundamental understanding. They ought to be considering: What is the outcome they’re driving, and how do you measure it from the start?

Shontell: Are you also employing AI to combat AI? I recently read about AI-generated receipts that are virtually indistinguishable from authentic ones. While our staff is highly dependable, there's a possibility of an individual submitting fabricated AI receipts. Is your system capable of detecting such submissions? How do you plan to counter AI-driven schemes when discerning the authenticity of items, such as expenses, becomes increasingly challenging?

Glyman: There’s a variety of ways. Earlier this year, following the release of a newer GPT-4 model, it became apparent that generating AI receipts was remarkably simple for individuals. Collaborating with top-tier labs like OpenAI and Anthropic, we initially developed detection systems, and we now possess a collection of more than 100 million receipts for analysis. We're employing AI to combat AI, aiming to prevent these transactions. This is beyond the capabilities of standard systems. Subsequently, given our access to various data streams—including card and merchant information, image details, receipt records, and accounting figures—we offer superior capabilities compared to solitary platforms, such as Expensify or Concur, which rely solely on an image for their analysis. Because we have multiple sources of identifying whether this transaction occurred, it’s much easier for us to detect what this receipt says, what the amount was, or the way the LLM generated a receipt that looks different than these 1 million other receipts we have for this merchant. That’s one large way. The second large way—I think a lot of waste happens and fraud happens because managers are too busy. For an organization of 100,000 individuals, numerous people are dedicating time, likely within this very audience, to review and decide whether to approve or reject an employee's expense. However, the truth is, you're occupied, you have a separate role, and you've likely just given your consent. Our large language models have been trained to thoroughly analyze your policy, likely with a deeper understanding than anyone present. Every expense has been audited and reviewed, allowing our policy agents to automatically approve 90% of transactions right from the start. Between 5% and 10% require review, and we can demonstrate the reasons for their inclusion or exclusion from policy. It boasts 99% accuracy, a figure roughly ten times greater than that of a typical employee. Essentially, it significantly cuts down on the time needed. Managers are spared review time, and it also identifies many issues that might otherwise go unnoticed. People spending company money that, in the old world, would’ve just gone through, because no one had the time to look at it.

Shontell: And as you’re building all these tools that are AI capable—efficiency and time and money saving can also equate, in a worker’s mind, to, Is that my job you’re coming for, Eric? So I’m curious how you’re thinking about, in the most honest way, the bigger vision: If Ramp is really successful in saving companies time and money, what will that do to traditional business functions? Do CEOs need a whole finance department if all goes to plan? Do they need a human resources department? Eventually a lot of the core business functions operations. Is that the grand vision? 

Glyman: While I don't think AI possesses the intelligence for a CFO's role or the entire finance department, it's certainly adept at handling your expense reports. The system can indeed classify transactions. And for the majority of individuals, I don't believe you're incorporating profound human intelligence when you take a picture, detail your purchases, and categorize your spending. This is extremely basic labor, and for the majority of individuals, it represents the most unpleasant sixty minutes of their entire month. Why not automate the unpleasant aspects of your work? This enables your top sales performers to dedicate that final hour to selling and performing the tasks they're best suited for. We're currently focused on generating significant delight and happiness for individuals in their professional capacities. When you abstract it and consider the long term, you might ask: What exactly is the finance function? Where are people spending time? And at least on the spend side, a lot of it’s really just algorithms. It's about figuring out who pays for what and when. After the expenditure has been made, what's the proper way to classify it? That takes a lot of work. Subsequently, based on the events that unfold, how can I adjust my strategy to achieve a more favorable result in the future? I'd contend that a significant portion of today's finance operations, approximately 80%, is primarily focused on past performance. The question is: What actions did we take? What did we spend on? What's the latest in the business world? It's not posing the intriguing inquiries that drew most individuals to finance, specifically, What steps can I take to improve this business? How should we invest in crucial areas? Where can we find greater value? What's a more effective way to allocate capital? And I truly believe that the tedious tasks people dislike will vanish. However, I'm quite hopeful that when your books manage themselves, capital will naturally flow toward greater returns. One, for businesses, you’re going to have a lot more at the end of the day. For the average American business, they have an 8% profit margin. If you can go and grow it even by 1%, it’s equivalent mathematically to a 12% increase in revenue. And so I think that bottom-line impact—to create more margin, to invest more—is going to be profound. And second, I think for people, the work is going to be more interesting. At least as far ahead as I can see and imagine, but we’re just excited to be working on it.

Shontell: So I want to leave a little bit of time for audience questions as well, but I’ll ask a couple more leading up to it. I want to go back to your experience in the current fundraising environment. What’s it like to be the hot girl on campus? How frothy is it out there, and were you surprised by some of the investor behavior you’ve seen, given your last company only raised $2 million and now you’ve raised over a billion? Slightly different. So, what’s it like out there to be a fundraising startup that every investor seems to want to have a piece of? 

Glyman: I think for investors, I empathize certainly in the venture industry. There are more investors than ever. 

Shontell: Everyone’s a VC. 

Glyman: It seems like it. There is a lot of capital, and I think people are looking to find yield. And some of this speaks to how the world is changing faster than ever. We are in a world now where computers can see and hear and think and reason, and that’s bizarre and has all sorts of profound implications. And I think we are, in some sense, multi-trillion dollar jump balls in lots of industries. And I think that the stakes are very high, and that’s part of why people are looking to invest. I’d also say that companies are growing faster than they ever have before.

Shontell: Is that because there’s so much money sloshing around? Why is now the moment? The numbers you’re hitting seem unfathomable from even a few years ago.

Glyman: I believe AI boosts productivity. Additionally, when businesses can expand, and Ramp is achieving this while producing cash at an unmatched rate, VCs see it and think, "Why wouldn't I invest?" Because if you're doubling annually at this magnitude, within months, a round that seemed costly proves to be a bargain. This, I think, contributes to the demand. Fewer companies are growing faster than ever before. Consider Cognition, a fantastic company that began with Ramp. Cursor is another example. These entities are less than two years old but are already generating nine figures in revenue. This success stems partly from seizing opportunities and offering novel services. However, it's also due to their finance departments leveraging remarkable technology, which in the past would have made it significantly harder to develop the in-house expertise needed to manage such growth. Therefore, I'm convinced that tools for creators are superior now than they've ever been.

Shontell: Does it ever make you nervous to be like, I started this company 2,300-whatever days ago, and we’re worth 22.5 billion? The fulfilling on that, and especially if an IPO is on the horizon and you’re going to be answering to investors… anxiety, excitement?

Glyman: I'm in my mid-thirties, you see. I believe you've always admired individuals, many present here, who've established impressive companies, aspiring to achieve that yourself eventually. I feel quite fortunate to have this chance and to be able to dedicate myself to something I'm truly enthusiastic about. However, I believe that in certain respects, valuations are a consequence. It’s not the thing, it’s not the reason. Revenue comes from customers genuinely feeling that their trust was well earned. When customers subscribed to a service, it consistently met their expectations, so much so that they recommended it to other companies. We improved their business, making it more profitable and enabling them to grow at an accelerated pace. And in a way, I believe that anyone who starts a business does so with the hope of making some kind of positive impact on the world. So the valuation is one thing, but the numbers I care much more about are really: How much did we save customers this month? Did we make people better off? And I think that’s why some of the best engineers in the world want to come to Ramp. I think that’s some of why the best designers are working on … you wouldn’t think that these people are interested in corporate cards and expense management. 

Shontell: Not so sexy of an industry, but yet you’re crafting great talent.

Glyman: We think it is now. And it’s not just the hot yellow that the Ramp brand is doing, and the fun ads. I think it’s for people who want to matter in the world and have some kind of an impact. I think this is a real way to do this, and do it quickly.

Shontell: So Eric, for a final question, I want to kind of get inside of your brain as a CEO. It’s really hard to be a CEO these days, as you know, and navigate all the change. And I can’t imagine what it’s like to go from you sitting there with Karim, thinking you’re going to start this big awesome company, just 2,000-plus days ago, to what you’ve achieved today. How have you scaled yourself? How have you gotten yourself ready to meet the moment of what Ramp is today?

Glyman: I try to approach it with a lot of humility. There’s a lot of things I don’t know. And I think one of the problems of compounding growth is that, what allowed you to grow by 100% over the last year will, by definition, if you don’t do something about it, you might only grow 50% the next year, 25% the next. And so you can know certainly what got you here will not get you there. And so it forces you to constantly look in the mirror and say, Okay, what was I great at that I need to give up? Because the game has changed a lot. And so I think it’s a lot of just being real about that. It’s not about getting a little bit better at the small set of things, but actually trying to put yourself out of the job very, very often.

Shontell: Do you mentally try and put yourself out of a job?

Glyman: I do.

Shontell: How do you do that? Do you think about what bad Eric could do today? How do you think about that?

Glyman: You discover certain things about yourself. I'll phrase it like this. If there are 100 things to do, I’m the kind of person that’s like, What are the top 10 most interesting things? And I’ll do those and drop the other 90. And in the early days, no big deal, but at some point that will kill you, because those other 90 things need to get done. So I try to look for great operators, people who are not going to drop the ball, people who are better at sales, better at pieces of marketing, better at engineering. I genuinely find it rewarding to discover individuals capable of imparting knowledge, assigning them responsibilities, and entrusting them with tasks. And I'll try to concentrate on the things that only I can accomplish, or perhaps where I possess a slight advantage, to ensure a greater return on my investment of time. And so part of it involves seeking out excellent mentors. I often consider individuals such as Fidji Simo. She formerly led Instacart as CEO, guiding the company through its IPO, and has since joined OpenAI. Satya Nadella serves as an excellent mentor. And I think some people pursue coaches. I try to call people up for an hour at a time, where if I can just get their advice on AI or marketing or sales and learn just a little bit. Ask them who they’ve learned a lot from in particular fields and just jump from person to person. This has proven quite beneficial. Ultimately, I believe a company is simply a group of individuals. You might lose sight of it, but it remains a fact. And I think that if you can go and build a strong team, try to empower people to double down on what makes them great, not fix their deficiencies, that’ll help you have a much more well-rounded company. And so I’m still learning. We're open to suggestions and giving it our all, and it's been a really enjoyable journey.

Shontell: Well, Eric, it has been so fun to watch what you’ve built at Ramp, and we’re going to continue to watch it at Coins2Day. Pick up the next issue, you’ll see a big feature on Ramp and their explosive growth. But thank you for spending time with us today. 

Glyman: Thanks so much, Alyson.

Brady:Leadership Next is produced and edited by Hélène Estèves.

Stoller:  Our executive producer is Lydia Randall.

Brady:  Our head of video is Adam Banicki.

Stoller: Our theme is by Jason Snell.

Leadership Next  episodes are produced by  Coins2Day the views and opinions shared by podcasters and guests are exclusively theirs and don't represent the perspectives of Deloitte or its staff. Deloitte does not promote or support any individuals or organizations featured in the episodes..