According to Reddit cofounder and investor Alexis Ohanian, only social media platforms exhibiting 'real humanity' will endure.

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Transcript:

Alexis Ohanian: In America, you know the “Ball Don’t Lie” moment is in the revenue—the dollars—and you’d be laughed out of a room for saying people don’t care about women’s tennis because the money says you’re an idiot, that’s wrong.

Diane Brady: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Leadership Next. The podcast about the people…

Kristin Stoller: …and trends…

Brady: …that are shaping the future of business. I’m Diane Brady.

Stoller: And I’m Kristin Stoller.

Brady: And this week, Kristin, one of my favorite people to interview, Alexis Ohanian.

Stoller: Indeed, he's the cofounder of Reddit, but his focus extends far beyond that. His primary interest lies in funding women's athletics. During our conversation at the Coins2Day Global Forum held in Riyadh, he shared significant insights regarding the growth of women's sports, not just within the United States, but on a worldwide scale, including the Middle East.

Brady: Let's establish a baseline. A key factor in his keen interest in women's athletics appears to stem from his significantly closer personal relationship with Serena Williams, who is also directing capital into this sector. Furthermore, he has been an active participant as an investor. This individual has achieved considerable success with entities like Instacart, Coinbase, and Opendoor. Consequently, his track record as an investor is remarkably strong. He is certainly someone to observe closely. And naturally, he is also an entrepreneur.

Stoller: He is. I believe one of the most compelling points he shared with me during our time there was his conviction that we'll witness a women's team valued at a billion dollars within the coming five years. He's quite enthusiastic. He initiated the new women's track and field event, Athlos, which recently occurred in Times Square during October, and he's certain that women's athletics is on the verge of achieving the same financial success as men's.

Brady: He discusses that subject. He touches briefly on his personal leadership outlook, which has evolved throughout the years. Furthermore, he addresses some of the advocacy work he's undertaken. My initial acquaintance with him stemmed from his campaigns concerning net neutrality and internet liberty. Clearly, we've now entered a completely new era regarding what's anticipated with AI. Consequently, we delved into that topic too.

Stoller: Some spicy hot takes too.

Brady: Indeed, quite a bit. I genuinely appreciated this discussion with Alexis Ohanian. I trust you found it valuable as well, and we'll return shortly after this pause.

Brady: Cities are home to the majority of the world’s population and account for 80% of global GDP. That makes the health and sustainability of our cities critical to creating a prosperous future. And of course, business has a role to play. Jason Girzadas, the CEO of Deloitte US, is the sponsor of this podcast, and he joins us now. Jason, great to see you. 

Jason Girzadas: Great to see you, Diane. Thanks for having me. 

Brady: So, how should businesses play a role in creating more vibrant and sustainable cities?

Girzadas: It's evident to me that the well-being of urban areas is fundamentally tied to the prosperity and achievements of commerce. I believe this begins with an understanding or acknowledgment of that shared, interdependent truth. The key, I feel, how involves cooperation. It means leveraging the strengths of companies to foster urban revitalization and new ideas. This is about grasping the vital importance of cities in driving economic growth, pioneering advancements, and facilitating cultural interaction.

Stoller: Jason, could you give us some examples of successful urban transformation projects that have been driven by these innovative business practices?

Girzadas: I'm pleased to report that Deloitte initiated a program named Yes SF in 2023. The introduction of Yes SF in San Francisco, my place of residence, alongside other business partners, has united our capabilities to foster enthusiasm among innovators for advancing sustainability and technological advancements that will serve the city.

Stoller: Excellent. Well, that sounds like a very cool project. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. 

Girzadas: Thank you.

Brady: Thanks, Jason.

Stoller: Alexis, thank you so much for joining us here at the Coins2Day Global Forum in Riyadh.

Ohanian: Thank you for having me.

Stoller: Certainly. I'd like to begin by acknowledging that you're juggling numerous roles currently. You're a founder, an investor…

Brady: I thought you were going to compliment his suit actually. Wearing so many hats and a nice suit.

Stoller: You’re a founder, investor, you’re an owner, you’re a dad. Where are your priorities out right now? Give us a taste.

Ohanian: Literally this week, my priorities—I’m not being the best dad, but I promised my girls, papa is coming home Friday. There might be pancakes for dinner. You know, you’ve got to spice things up when you’ve been out of town for a week. I’m spending all my time on the business side building Seven Seven Six, and that’s this venture fund that I seeded with my own capital, we also have outside investors. We’re investing in everything from Mr. Beast and Stoke Space to Angel City and women’s sports, so a little bit of everything. And every now and then I get to pretend like I’m a founder because of one of our incubations, and that’s my most fun thing at the moment.

Stoller: Once a founder, always a founder, though.

Brady: I believe it relates to your origins. This marks your initial visit to Riyadh. I'd like to explore that briefly. What are your thoughts? I understand it's quite early. And what prompted your presence here initially?

Ohanian: I've been operating in this area for a considerable period. My business dealings with The Emiratis commenced roughly ten years ago, meaning I've dedicated substantial time to the Emirates. Over the past five years or so, I've observed an increasing number of my colleagues in the tech industry relocating here, securing funding, and spending time in Saudi Arabia. Initially, I admit, I was reluctant. A significant area where I've achieved considerable success in the last five years involves emerging sports, particularly women's sports. This endeavor is very deliberate; I'm building businesses I anticipate will reach billion-dollar valuations, and they're also initiatives I'm immensely proud of for my two daughters. I want their father's absence to be for a compelling reason. Given all this, I was apprehensive. I needed assurance that any invitations I received were accompanied by a genuine alignment of values. I must specifically acknowledge Princess Reema for her role in this.

Brady: …the ambassador, the Saudi Ambassador to the United States.

Ohanian: Princess Reema has accomplished a remarkable feat. Each encounter I've had with her, she's passionately discussed not only her personal aspirations but also the ongoing initiatives aimed at fostering significant advancements, advancements we'd be delighted to witness globally, and particularly within this region. Consequently, she's served as an exceptional representative, both literally and metaphorically, for the kingdom, and it was through her influence that I decided, Alright, you know what? The moment has arrived. I'm genuinely eager to experience this firsthand. Despite being here for merely a day so far, I've received an exceptionally cordial reception, and I'm looking forward to the remainder of my visit.

Stoller: Well, you don’t look jet lagged at all. You’re doing great.

Ohanian: That’s because of the coffee I’m hiding under the table.

Stoller: This brings us to Athlos, your professional women's track and field competition. Could you share some details about it? When did it commence? What was the impetus behind its creation? We'd appreciate the complete background.

Ohanian: I first got into sports, and women’s sports, in particular about five years ago, when I rage tweeted about how undervalued the industry was. And in particular, women’s soccer, women’s football. And I proceeded to spend about a million dollars to buy an expansion, the NWSL Angel City, now the most valuable in the United States. And I saw an opportunity because every four years, especially in the U.S., we celebrated soccer, but it was women playing. The Women’s World Cup was a much bigger deal because the American men are not very good. That disappeared, though, outside the World Cup. And I say, this doesn't seem logical, considering that top-tier brands, a top-tier audience, and all these elements occur every four years.. Then they disappear. They’re the same athletes. Why can’t we have this year round? And what I should have done was buy the league. I didn’t and so…

Brady: You say that so casually.

Ohanian: Honestly, five years ago, $10-15 million probably would buy the NWSL. The situation was extremely difficult. This was the third association of its nature in the United States. The initial pair had ceased operations. The circumstances were unfavorable. I was granted another opportunity because the Olympics were approaching. I examined the situation thoroughly and concluded, "Alright, which sports are most prevalent here that, once more, boast a history of American achievement, particularly among female athletes, and then fade from view?" Athletics, surprisingly, represents a heritage of American achievement, particularly among female athletes, and is a remarkable offering. Highly captivating, deeply absorbing, prime audiences, and then it vanishes. And so last April, or perhaps a bit before then, I began conversing with the swiftest female athletes globally. They answered my calls, I jotted down points, and I posed numerous uninsightful inquiries to them. Last April, Athlos was unveiled alongside Gabby Thomas, immediately establishing itself as the sport's most lucrative event by doubling the top prize. And approximately one year has passed since then. We convened another gathering in New York with prominent brands such as Tiffany, Toyota, Cash App, and Instacart, and I believe the viewership for that occasion reached four to four and a half million. We're also introducing a complete league, akin to Formula 1 but for track and field, commencing next year. We'll be holding three competitions; Certainly, we'll return to New York, but major global cities, for the world's quickest female athletes to contend for substantial rewards and truly elevate this sport beyond an event that occurs only once every four years. And to bring teams into agreement. If you're considering a comparison between Mercedes and Ferrari in Formula One, then when you think of Athlos, consider it as a hypothetical matchup between Nike and Adidas. We're striving to achieve that goal, aiming to harness an energy that typically vanishes right after the Olympics conclude, which it shouldn't.

Stoller: Regarding your conversations with the athletes, could you elaborate on who you engaged with and their primary unmet desires?

Brady: Alexis, as you discuss what you're developing, the indicators of achievement, in my view, bring to mind the sport of tennis. You're aware that Billie Jean King was the pioneer in establishing equivalent prize money for female tennis players. Clearly, your spouse, Serena, is both a celebrated figure and a businesswoman in her own right. I'm simply interested in any insights she contributed to this endeavor, or anything you've observed that you found this is what’s going to make it important for women to compete. I understand we're discussing an event that occurs quadrennially, yet you're cultivating a sustained following for it.

Ohanian: 100%. It's quite noteworthy. When I initially informed her about my intention to invest in women's soccer and establish a team, she actually attempted to dissuade me. Partially due to her firsthand experience on the opposing side within this athletic and women's sports framework. And as you mentioned, the WTA stands out as one of the premier organizations, wouldn't you agree? Thanks to Billie Jean King, pay equity became a reality. Due to that compensation parity, a few young women in Compton resolved to dedicate their existence to tennis, correct? That's precisely the rationale. Without Billie Jean King's influence, Serena and Venus Williams might not have emerged, but their impact propelled tennis beyond exclusive clubs, transforming it into a globally adored sport, particularly within the United States. This established a platform for achieving excellence. Given that these competitions occurred concurrently, they were able to declare, "Very well, we will also promote the women's events." Then you discover this incredible skill that elevates the sport significantly. And in America, you know, the “ball don’t lie” moment is in the revenue, the dollars, and you’d be laughed out of a room for saying people don’t care about women’s tennis because the money says you’re an idiot, that’s wrong. And witnessing that firsthand, which, naturally, I'm married to her, provided the confirmation I required to consider, Alright, if it's effective in tennis, why wouldn't it be in other athletic disciplines? Regarding soccer, for those in the United States, there's no understanding of American soccer prowess that doesn't involve women, given that the men aren't skilled. I can promote top-tier quality continuously, correct? Regardless of whether you tune in. Although I'd never seen the game played, I was aware of Mia Hamm's identity. I clearly recall Chastain converting that penalty, overcoming China, ripping off her jersey, and shouting. Those instances of outstanding achievement allow me to promote this sport to people in the United States and have them believe, "Yes, this is indeed the finest." And I believe there's a comparable opening with track and field, Flo-Jo. American women's track and field boasts a rich legacy of achievement, and I believe it presents an exceptional environment for growth. I'm feeling enthusiastic.

Stoller: It's noteworthy that you mention Serena challenged you, as many of the couples we interview who are partners in business and life find it difficult to collaborate.

Brady: Good luck saying it to your daughters.

Ohanian; I stopped that one. So I rolled that one back.

Brady: Look, we’re talking right now about what you’re doing in the present. I’d like to remind people what shaped you. Talk a little bit about the genesis. I mean, obviously I know you through Reddit, Y Combinator. What got you into tech in the first place? Because you’re not a classic story. You weren’t somebody taking apart a radio and boom, here we go.

Ohanian: No, I mean, my parents made one excellent choice. They invested a significant amount of funds to acquire a computer for me, a 486 SX, which they had no clue how to operate. They simply accumulated a few thousand dollars and presented it to me, instructing me not to damage it. And if I did break it, I would be responsible for its repair. This occurred during my middle school years, and it set me on a considerably altered path, though I was consistently only an average programmer. However, I possessed perseverance and determination, along with a strong work ethic, which proved immensely beneficial. I performed adequately in my studies to gain admission to UVA; I submitted my application through early decision, which was a considerable advantage. But I wasn't the typical candidate from an elite university. I wasn't a student from Stanford. I recall that on the UVA application, there was a section where you had to indicate if you were a legacy applicant. And I remember inquiring of my mother, What does legacy mean? And my father responded, W ell, if we don’t know what it means, we better not check it. And so that provides you with an understanding. I mean, my mother's highest educational attainment was a GED, and my father attended an unconventional institution in Ohio known as Antioch, so we were not a typical family for a tech CEO.

Brady: You build community. That’s one motif throughout your career.

Ohanian: Indeed, and that's precisely what has facilitated the seamless transition into sports, given that one could persuade unknown individuals online to unite over something as trivial as attaching bread to trees, a concept exemplified by a notably popular Reddit group. Building a community centered on a fanbase, particularly around sports, is straightforward, isn't it? This is because we already grasp the influence of community within the realm of sports. It exists both digitally and physically, making it a definite advantage, and I anticipate this trend will persist throughout my professional journey.

Stoller: What do you think community looks like in the age of AI right now? And how’s that going to change?

Stoller: …do you want to lead it? Do you have any ideas?

Brady: I'm reflecting on net neutrality, the struggles you faced. I perceive some parallels here, regarding how much you're worried about equitable treatment. The potential for launching the kinds of new businesses you established in this subsequent phase? You brought up the Zuck factor. Naturally, that's one element.

Stoller: It truly saddens me that our time together is concluding, as I believe we've only just begun to explore the depths of this subject.

Brady: We’ve got to give him a chance to do one word.

Stoller: I'm keen to discuss both underrated and overrated topics, spanning technology and athletics. Which domain shall we begin with, technology or sports?

Stoller: Okay, all right.

Brady; Underrated sports for $5

Ohanian: Yes, please, Daily Double.

Ohanian: Women’s sports is still massively underrated.

Ohanian: Regarding what's overvalued, I'd point to media agreements. For The Big Four, we're observing these multi-billion dollar media contracts, which have generated considerable excitement. I believe a shift is inevitable. The spectator experience has become quite disjointed, hasn't it? This reflects a sentiment many of us share regarding the sheer number of subscriptions required to view our preferred games. Consequently, I anticipate the marketplace will self-regulate. Nevertheless, this further underscores why one should be enthusiastic about developing sports, as our collective aim is to simplify content access. Therefore, I'm optimistic about emerging entities, but I maintain that the fervor surrounding the Big Four and their substantial media pacts is overblown.

Ohanian: It may come as a shock to some. I believe the realm of space technology is undervalued. And while SpaceX holds significant worth—I'm not currently invested in SpaceX, though I'd like to be, should anyone be looking to divest some stock—SpaceX stands as a remarkable enterprise. However, space technology, in its entirety, is generally underestimated because we're still…

Brady: …what’s space tech?

Ohanian: Anything launched into orbit, ideally returning, though not strictly required. I believe the expense per kilogram remains excessively steep, given that SpaceX is the sole provider. Furthermore, securing a spot on a rocket typically involves a 12- to 18-month waiting period, which is still remarkably restrictive. Consequently, I consider the space economy to be significantly underestimated, as operations in that domain remain exceedingly costly. As these expenses decrease, driven by our preference for competition and the free market's influence on pricing, SpaceX will enhance its efficiency. Additional rivals will emerge, paving the way for a new generation of entrepreneurs to establish space technology ventures, something that was not feasible just a few years prior. I must emphasize this point: my involvement and enthusiasm stem from the belief that this will lead to advancements for humanity and life on our planet.

Ohanian: I'm strangely pessimistic about the abundance of proposals currently focused on AI agents. This concept involves employing AI to manage tasks on your computer or, more precisely, on the display. Two contrasting perspectives exist regarding this matter. On one side, it's practical and sensible to assert, We're going to instruct artificial intelligence on how to traverse these user interfaces, which were originally created for people.. Conversely, the alternative perspective questions why we're developing tools that circumvent human cognitive processes, when the ideal scenario would be direct communication between automated systems. Consequently, there's a prevailing notion…

Brady: …that's autonomous. Machines communicating with machines, right? You've framed it as a good thing. That's wonderful.

Ohanian: I tend to be optimistic, but I believe this will present difficulties for numerous businesses that anticipate their future lies in developing such solutions, when in a span of years, perhaps five, it will simply be more practical to abandon that pursuit.

Stoller: Thank you so much.

Brady:Leadership Next is produced and edited by Hélène Estèves.

Brady: Our head of video is Adam Banicki.

Stoller: Our theme is by Jason Snell.

Leadership Next episodes are produced by Coins2Day the editorial staff of __PLH_1. The perspectives and viewpoints shared by those hosting and appearing on the podcasts are exclusively theirs and don't represent the stances of Deloitte or its workforce. Furthermore, Deloitte doesn't support or approve of any individuals or organizations highlighted in the broadcasts.