Vanessa Pappas, Chief Operating Officer, TikTok 
Interviewer: Emma Hinchliffe, FORTUNE

Most Powerful Women 2022 - Community Building’s Latest Sensation

Community Building’s Latest Sensation

being in this community and as a co chair of this summit is such an honor. Um we really love and appreciate our community of most powerful women and the hundreds of you that make it special. So thank you for being here now. I am trying to wrap my head around what it is like being on a team that oversees a community of millions and potentially billions of people because I can tell you on behalf of everyone at fortune, Just overseeing a community of hundreds is a fair amount of work, but overseeing this much larger community is the job of Vanessa Pappas, chief operating officer of Tiktok. The social media app has more than 3.5 billion downloads, more than one billion active users a month and is poised to reach close to two billion active users a month. By the end of the year, the community has become, the company has become a digital powerhouse and a global cultural force, but at a time of such incredible growth and influence, it's also navigating geopolitical challenges and government scrutiny. Please join me in welcoming Vanessa for a conversation with Fortune, senior writer and M. P. W. Summit co chair and the Hench list. Thank you. Right. Hi Vanessa, thank you for buying. Hi everybody. So before you were at Tiktok, you worked in tech for several years, including at Youtube when you took your first job at Tiktok, did you have any idea it would thrust you into the spotlight in this way. No idea. I think, you know, certainly I always believed in the product and the amazing communities that have really uh found to foster on Tiktok, but I think the success that we've had is just been unparalleled and certainly in the short time frame that we've had that success. So it was a surprise, to say the least. So you've repeatedly said that this is a top of mind for many people and dominating the headlines, you repeatedly said that Tiktok has not and would not send data to the Chinese government. What gives you the confidence to make that claim both in the past and looking ahead to the future, you know, what assurances do you personally have? That, that won't happen. Yeah. So really, for us, it's all about the responsibility of the platform to ensure the safety and security of our users here in the U. S. And around the world and that's something that we're heavily investing in. And the way we do it is, you know, in a number of ways. So one where we store our data, how we put the right access controls around that data and then the transparency of all those actions and so everything that we've been doing knowing that we are highly scrutinized platform, that we have a lot of attention on our efforts and our practices were really looking to ensure that we're putting the best foot forward and we do that through those efforts and transparency. So, you know, in terms of assurances, we have our checks and balances in terms of storing that data locally, ensuring that we have the right access controls around it, but really bringing in the visibility to that and, you know, for many ways to talk sexually leading the industry and those transparency efforts. So recently we announced the oracle is actually going to be vetting and validating all of our systems, which is an industry first. You know, if Tiktok under some circumstances were ever banned in the U. S. Could the company survive as a business? Look, I think for Tiktok, you know, it is amazing app that really has um just found uh, such amazing communities around the world and the relevancy that Tiktok has, has become in people's daily lives is just unparalleled again. And so whether you're in the US or you know, in other parts of the world, whether that's in africa to europe, you know, it's just phenomenal to see how each culture is really adapted Tiktok as a form of creative expression and finding their sense of community and voice. So yes, look, I don't think that scenario is gonna play out, but really it is a phenomenon that we're seeing around the world. You have a lot of imitators including metal which attempted to overhaul instagram to more closely resemble Tiktok and then walk that back. Why did their attempts fail? I think the community always speaks for what is going to really resonate and work for them and, you know, the great news for consumers today is there's so much like there's a plethora of choice in the plethora of platforms and so your ability to express yourselves today and find an audience really is um just, you know, there's a multiplicity of ways that you can do that and Tiktok obviously being one and one that we think is very creative and joyful and you know, we call Tiktok the last sunny spot on the internet and so, you know, we're really upholding that community and that's what you're looking for. You coming to Tiktok. There are other platforms that will have similar features, but for us it always comes back to the community. Yeah. You know, what is it about Tiktok that makes the product so popular and so addictive. So I think the popularity of Tiktok and for those in the room have who have experienced it, I mean show of hands by the end of the day, we want to see all because it really is, I think a platform for everyone, right, we really pride ourselves in the diversity of voices that are on Tiktok and that really has grown and changed over the years um since our inception. And so when we think about what's special about Tiktok, it really is a couple of things. One just the, the barrier for entry in terms of creation is really lowered like anybody can get on and create a video. Um, similarly, the ability to get discovered is also radically fast. So you can consume a lot of content in a short period of time and videos get discovered very easily and can go viral largely because of the short format that it is. So I think across those two things, what we've seen is essentially a redefining of entertainment. You know, we think of Tiktok as an entertainment platform powered by the communities and, and that really has shifted the onus in terms of what the platform is, how we define entertainment, how we define creators and it really does enable like this diversity of voices that we haven't otherwise seen. Yeah, I'm gonna go to you guys for questions in a moment. So start thinking um, what do you see on your for you page and what's your favorite Tiktok trends? I see, I mean I see so many things and I think the thing that's magical about Tiktok is that it really is this kind of surprising experience where you can go in with one set of interests and then you'll discover this whole other world that you were just like didn't know about. Um, obviously we've seen successes with things like book talk where you're seeing books and the, the reading community really gravitate to certain literature and then that those books are like being propelled to the new york times bestseller list. So our hashtag book talk has over 80 billion views, which is just phenomenal to think about the power of the communities getting behind things like, you know, literature today. Um, my personal feed is really a mix of old things. So obviously I'm a pet lover, I'm a mom right now, my kids back to school. So one of my favorite creators is Gabby Amorosa who does all these like lunch box hacks and things like that. So it really is, you know, anything and everything. But uh, there's just the, I think the diversity of the content really is what makes it so special. Yeah. You know, the platform platform is powerful in a lot of ways, you know, like facebook talk has the power to influence how people view the world at scale. You know, we saw an example of this recently with the johnny Depp, Amber heard trial where content that was really anti Amber heard really proliferated on the platform and influence how people, especially young tiktok users viewed that trial and this cultural consequences. Um, you know, how are you thinking about that problem? How are you addressing the issue? And does your approach to content moderation differ from competitors? Like yeah, I would say, you know, we take all these issues really seriously. And one of the things that they created early on was something called r content advisory council. And so what we do in that scenario is we bring in a number of experts, They sit on our council, we meet on a quarterly basis and also more regularly when certain incidences arise. Um, that needs greater attention and and that's really an opportunity for us to hear about experts who are on the cutting edge of their field? Thinking about things like cyber billing, minor safety, you know, hate and harassment, any of the issues that can have happen at a response like at a platform of scale and so with things like that trial, we're certainly looking at it from the trust and safety perspective to ensure that we are safeguarding our community as being healthy and vibrant and inclusive space for all. And we're looking at ensuring that we're enforcing our community guidelines that really enable that healthy ecosystem to exist. So that was obviously one where our trust and safety teams were doing sweeps of the content, making sure that we're upholding um, and removing any content that was deemed inappropriate for the platform, I would say, you know, when you compare us to other platforms, I think we take a higher bar in many ways um in terms of the types of content that we would deem violative um certainly if you look at things like misinformation and other challenges that, you know, now we're coming into an election cycle. So it's top of mind, those are certain areas for us that we really do take a fairly strict approach. Do you have any questions Okay, keep thinking um, you know, I think most companies, most brands are at this point, aware of the power of Tiktok, but how do you see large brands and advertisers using the platform well and where do you think there may be missing out on the potential. So you know, where we're seeing brands do well is where they're engaging with the community. And you know, if you think of about Tiktok and the differences to some of the other platforms, it really is more of an authentic experience. And so you know, one of our first kind of campaigns to advertisers was talking about, you know, don't make ads make Tik Toks and I think that really resonates because it really gets to the heart of how can you show up as a brand and talk to the community because it really is a conversation, I think one of the most interactive platforms out there, it really does um just lean into that experience of having this dialogue and and that's why you see like the viral trends really take a foothold because it is this like chain effect of the conversation and these cultural moments that really resonate with people. And so you know, whether that's like, you know, recently we saw Taco Bell work with Doja Cat around like uh discontinued item that they had on Pizza Mexican pizza. And so they did this whole thing and she did a song about like wanting to bring this pizza back and you know, Taco Bell leaned in and then like there was a whole kind of community uprising around like this pizza. So uh, this is crazy and then, you know, but any, any time where we see brands really lean in and be a part of that conversation, that's where we see the magic happen. Um, and certainly, you know, Tiktok has been known as being a shelf clearer in that way. You know, we've seen trends like the feta pasta trend or you know, and feathers like flying off the shelves and ocean spray with the Nathan Apodaca video, like, you know, you can't go into a store and find ocean spray. So, um, beauty products, you know, I think Rihanna with Fenty is really lent into the product, leaned into the product as well and just like really engaging the community. So I think a lot of it is just like how do you show up with an authentic voice and find ways that you can connect with your community and I think that's where the magic happens. Social media managers love to make tick talks about all the trends legal won't let them participate in. And so that's certainly not something you're seeing on instagram ads? Yeah. Um, are there any misconceptions about Tiktok, anything that you, you know object to that you hear in the news or other where I think, you know, where you were talking before about, you know, what is what makes Tiktok so unique and so special and just seeing the genesis of the platform, you know, I've been, I've been with Tiktok since the early days of late 2018 and 2019 and it really was seen more as a gen Z platform at that time. And I think just seeing kind of the growth and like the diversity of the content, a lot of the misperceptions that we're getting is oh, it's still a gen Z app or it's still like lip sync content. But talking before about like trends like book talk where or you know, there really is an audience for the content that you're going to put up as well as the things that you're interested in. I can guarantee you'll find something interesting and entertaining on Tiktok no matter your age, demographic background and so on. So I think that's the kind of misperception that we often face. Yeah. Do we have a question? I thought I saw a hand. Oh yes, right here. Um, sorry, a microphone should be headed your way. Hi from Charles Schwab um, to your mother. And one of the things that I think about is just the, you know, all the data about how much kids are spending time online. I'm curious like how do you manage that with your family? How do you think about how much time they should be spending on Tiktok and all the other places they might be online, screens are hard, especially coming out of a pandemic. I thought it was a mom who is not going to allow my kids to be on screens and you know, granted minor young, so they're four and six. Um but the way that we think about it from the platform perspective and and the sense of responsibility is we look to put the right set of controls um that you as a parent can access for your team. Um So we actually created something called family pairing a couple of years ago, which enables you to pair your device to your team's device and have a set of controls to understand what they're watching and and all of that. And and I think you know, again, that was like industry leading at the time. Um but all of those kind of areas of like how much time people are spending on app is certainly something to be cognizant of. We actually, you know, speaking to the power of our community, we actually engage our community to have them create essentially P. S. A. S. Uh for the platform. So if you were ever scrolling through Tiktok and you've been on it for a little while, you will come across the video that says, hey, why don't you take a break. Um so and we do it in the voice of our creative because we find that's more of an authentic and effective way to communicate to our communities. So we look at it really holistically. Again, I mentioned the content advisory council before where we have experts on youth who help give guidance in terms of some of the tools or features that we should be thinking about, but certainly from like a policy perspective as well. Well, thank you so much, Vanessa. Thank you for being with us. Thank you.